Our Cross to Bear: More Reasons CUVs Are Our Destiny

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 12/30/2016 at 12:10 • Filed to: Apocalypse Now...on sale with rebate

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I was talking to a peer about how I’ve run tires longer than most CEOs have run Hyundai when I mentioned that Hyundai doesn’t make utility vehicles. They of course called me out because there are new Santa Fes and Tucsons everywhere, some without rental stickers ! I asked them how many sizes of SUVs should an automaker offer. They replied with, “ Zero...  but four tops!” I laughed, but it wasn’t at the joke. Oppo, when it comes fighting and jokes I never pull my punch lines.

Ahem...

When it came to sedans it was easy to view them as small, medium, and large. Maybe you find an extra small or an extra large here or there but you were looking at three to five sizes consistently expected from any brand. Now some of you may be aware that clothing comes in far more sizes than those! Hey, in the US our food is portioned as Kids, Small, Medium, Large, “Branded” Large, and Buffet (aka, Unlimited/Freedom/’Murica). With that in mind, why wouldn’t our vehicles match?

The thing about Utility Vehicles is that the increase in interior height allows for seats to be higher off the floor, which means a more upright seating position . You have heard that term before but now consider how much that changes perceived interior seating space. Reclined positions decrease needed headroom but raise needed legroom, while upright positions increase needed headroom and decrease needed legroom. Which one of these is going to be the most advantageous for creating interior seating space (for multiple occupants) within a small cabin?

Due to seating we now have compact CUVs with as much perceived legroom as midsize sedans all while being cheaper than that car and better equipped than the comparable class size of sedan. What this means is that you can now size your vehicles by the perceived cabin legroom size AND the vehicle foot print! Thus instead of sedan lineups as such:

Subcompact Interior - Subcompact Footprint - Subcompact Pricing

Compact Interior - Compact Footprint - Compact Pricing

Midsize Interior - Midsize Footprint - Midsize Pricing

Fullsize Interior - Fullsize Footprint - Fullsize Pricing

You end up with the following for CUVs:

Subcompact Interior - Sub-Subcompact Footprint - Subcompact Pricing

Subcompact Interior - Subcompact Footprint - Subcompact Pricing

Compact Interior - Subcompact Footprint - Compact Pricing

Compact Interior - Compact Footprint - Compact Pricing

Midsize Interior - Compact Footprint - Midsize Pricing

Midsize Interior - Midsize Footprint - Midsize Pricing

Fullsize Interior - Midsize Footprint - Fullsize Pricing

Fullsize Interior - Fullsize Footprint - Fullsize Pricing

Oh, and these keep going since you can add rows until bus driver think you need counseling. If the pricing is a class larger than the vehicle then you have a luxury product, and the inverse would be a bargain. If the interior is perceived to be any class size below the footprint then you have something “sporty.” I’m sure you all get the picture.

My point is, within this basic layout of consumer offerings, your three-five sizes of sedans is expanded to 6-10 sizes of Utility Vehicles without pushing the boundaries of your pricing structure. All while having an inherit value perception built into the system for the consumer which means you can sell the same class twice. In this way, your three sizes of Hyundai crossovers isn’t even halfway through the “standard” lineup that should be offered. That’s like a pizza shop that only sells the dough, bro! You can’t make dough on just dough, you need chesee to make the real cheddah!

What you all will start seeing are more CUVs being referred to as “tweener” -sized. Youll look at lineups such as the Jeep Renegade, Jeep Cherokee, and Jeep Grand Cherokee. You’ll think, “Subcompact, Compact, Midsize.” Then they’ll throw a Compass at you and you’ll be disoriented. Now you’re thinking “Subcompact, Small Compact, Large Compact, Midsize.” Then they’ll put real carpeting in the Wrangler Unlimited and then you’re checking the tag on your shirt and the tag on that Jeep to see if both are now Extra-Mediums.

Oppo, what I’m saying is that you couldn’t have two of the same sized sedans from the same brand at the same pricing. At least this was true before Mercedes started making the CLS. However you can have two same sized CUVs for relatively the same price from the same automaker and they will be different vehicles. So don’t be surprised when Nissan’s lineup is Juke-Kickz, Qashqai-Rogue, Murano-Pathfinder, Armada-Armada XL. Everyone will be heading this direction!

Not scared yet?

Here’s a refresher of what I said was standard for commodity brand CUVs:

Subcompact Interior - Sub-Subcompact Footprint - Subcompact Pricing

Subcompact Interior - Subcompact Footprint - Subcompact Pricing

Compact Interior - Subcompact Footprint - Compact Pricing

Compact Interior - Compact Footprint - Compact Pricing

Midsize Interior - Compact Footprint - Midsize Pricing

Midsize Interior - Midsize Footprint - Midsize Pricing

Fullsize Interior - Midsize Footprint - Fullsize Pricing

Fullsize Interior - Fullsize Footprint - Fullsize Pricing

If you make the interior class sizes smaller than the footprint class sizes then you have the current use of the word “coupe.” The interior has been cut down in order to adjust the exterior. You can’t properly “sport” if youre upright! Why do you think people never make car noises while sitting on an airplane?!! No leg room to hit that heel and toe, bro!

* Seriously, is it just me? That would explain all the rev hang...

Of course luxury brands have the added benefit of being able to adjust the pricings to be above the class size of the interior and exterior. I hope you’re starting to infer all the permutations. Oh, and don’t forget that off-road focused SUVs are a separate market from on-road focused SUVs...

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Nah, I’m just messing with you! There are limits, but in general you can always offer twice as many Utility Vehicles as sedans. That’s where your market dominance comes from.

Sooo...still not scared?

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Lifting your sedan and wagon is now a thing as well! Luckily the roofline is lower so they’ll follow sedan permutations instead of Utility Vehicle permutations.

Can we have too much variety? My opinion, no! Just ignore what you dont like and the world becomes a much smaller or more manageable place! Plus, is there any reason vehicles shouldn’t have the same wide range of choices as fashion, accessories, electronics, appliances, homes, food, insurance, and casinos? Heck, I have more variety of gas octanes at the pump than Hyundai has CUVs!

Wacko > Wobbles the Mind 12/30/2016 at 12:22

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nissan is bringing the Qashqai to north-america to place it between the juke and the rogue.

Wacko > Wacko 12/30/2016 at 12:34

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http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/12/nissan-debut-u-s-bound-qashqai-detroit/

Bluecold > Wobbles the Mind 12/30/2016 at 12:34

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which means a more upright seating position . You have heard that term before but now consider how much that changes perceived interior seating space.

No. Your ‘perceived interior seating space’ is not an accepted moniker. Your article is hinged upon this notion you’ve conjured up, but which makes no actual sense. Nobody likes an upright seating position, people want to recline. Also, your notion doesn’t take into account leg sizes.

You should also consider that higher cars are heavier, have higher air drag, are less suited for maneuvering and are more expensive to make and operate due to the previously mentioned reasons. Now, making a car longer is cheaper and easier than making a car higher.

Manufacturers don’t do this because people in general are idiots that prefer buying SUV’s over wagons. Which allows manufacturers to advertise for lower prices.

But on the technical side, your argument makes no sense.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Wobbles the Mind 12/30/2016 at 13:04

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I, for one, welcome our new crossover overlords.

for Michigan > Bluecold 12/30/2016 at 13:26

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Nobody likes an upright seating position, people want to recline.

“You’re wrong.” - The American Consumer

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Wobbles the Mind 12/30/2016 at 13:29

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If that Qashqai is exactly the same size as and as well built as the one I drove in the UK, it could be a contender. I really liked that little (huge by their standards) car.

Wobbles the Mind > Bluecold 12/30/2016 at 13:39

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In regards to seating position I’m referring to where your hips, the seat’s center of gravity, and your knees. The closer the three are the more upright your seating position (even if the seat back reclines). Obviously as your hips are higher legroom is less needed (standing up as the extreme). People can travel fine completely upright, look at buses. However traveling reclined usually involves your hips being below your knees which requires your feet to move outward in order to maintain comfort. Sort for the crude explanation, I can go further into detail when I’m off work but hopefully that helps out with the visualization and how headroom becomes a need as well. Think seat bottom in regards to travel rather than seat back and remember that reclined seating is always a premium.

Things like leg width have to do with seat and car width however wig enough forward legroom most people can make do not being spread eagle.

All the disadvantages you brought up are covered simply by the fact that consumers will spend more on the CUVs to the point of a higher profit margin while not caring about skid pad numbers.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Bluecold 12/30/2016 at 13:43

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Part of the reason for the crossover and SUV fad was that automakers had to push them as a way to avoid dealing with ever stricter emissions rules. The rules on “trucks” are much more relaxed and average people perceive large vehicles as more valuable/better (just human nature/psychology). It was an easy choice for the automakers and once it caught on, it spread like wildfire.

If the US had similar rules to the rest of the developed world (sans Canada), you’d see a lot more car variety like we see from European automakers and smaller SUV lines like we see from most Asian automakers. Actual working people would drive white vans like in Europe, not F-series and Silverado pickup trucks. Pickups would be exclusively used by ranchers & farmers, where they would be crossing over with tractors to some extent (see the Unimog line).

The only reason for the popularity of SUVs is that US regulations are idiotic and automakers decided to take the path of least resistance around them. Those regulations mostly killed the full-size car, but the country is now awash in full-size SUVs that get half the gas mileage of the cars, are more prone to rollovers, and have higher bumpers. This results in more accidents and deaths, which in turn resulted in all these cars that look hideous (taller, smaller windows, taller hoodlines, taller trunk lines, etc) so they’ll survive accidents with these death machines.

Gerry197 > Wobbles the Mind 12/30/2016 at 13:52

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Too many of you don’t understand for the majority of people, cars are tools first and foremost.

They are expensive these days, and they don’t want compromises in utility. Getting stuff in and out of them, carrying a lot of stuff, easy of entry and exit. Nothing does that better than a higher riding SUV/Crossover.

Sure, a sport wagon can do most of these things, except ease of entry, which is probably one of the main reasons people want a high riding vehicles in the first place.

Probenja > Wobbles the Mind 12/30/2016 at 14:14

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Hyundai has only 4 SUV’s but up to 9 sedan offerings! They have the Xcent as their sub-subcompact, Accent subcompact, Elantra compact, i40 small midsize, Sonata midsize, Azera large midsize, Alsan larger midsize, Genesis (G80) fullsize, Genesis (G90) large fullsize.

AMC/Renauledge > Wobbles the Mind 12/30/2016 at 14:28

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I came here simply to exclaim about the sheer amount of styling the Nissan Rogue now has. I thought the pre-facelift model had an abundance of styling (yet still managed to look dull), as if put on with a trowel.

The facelifted Rogue looks like they dumped a huge pile of lines, creases, protrusions, angles, blisters, and material changes, into a catapult and fired it at the current Rogue until this emerged. Then they painted it orange.

And it still manages to look dull.

RT > Wacko 12/30/2016 at 14:28

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Oh yeah, we’ve had the Qashqai here in the UK for a decade now.

And that’s what it is really, the Euro version of the Rogue and X-Trail - all are even based on the same platform. I guess now that the Rogue got so popular (and big), they bring in the cash cow to milk more profit.

RT > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 12/30/2016 at 14:32

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UK person here. Qashqai isn’t that huge, it’s only Golf-sized really.

fintail > AMC/Renauledge 12/30/2016 at 14:49

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That’s the automotive designer’s ethos now - apparently all good designs have already been done, so just pile on as much styling as possible, as the clueless drones who make up most CUV buyers will eat it up. It’s “bold” and daring. Thanks Toyolex.

fintail > Wobbles the Mind 12/30/2016 at 14:51

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As boomers age and need ease of entry/exit, continue to be the most affluent generation ever, and likely will fight to the death when asked to give up their keys (they won’t admit to aging or declining faculties), unfortunately, you are correct.

RT > Probenja 12/30/2016 at 14:51

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I always thought it was simpler than that, just different cars for different markets.

For example, in the UK they have the:

i10 (sub-subcompact), i20 (subcompact), i30 (compact) and i40 (midsize).

And in the US:

Accent (subcompact), Elantra (compact), Sonata (midsize) and Azera (fullsize).

So for what’s on sale, no overlap.

RT > Gerry197 12/30/2016 at 14:54

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Yep, plus the wagons are usually longer and thus harder to park.

Crossovers put what wagons do (and a bit more) in a more fashionable package for normal people. Most of them are bland and hateful, but they do their job in the end.